{"id":6839,"date":"2022-10-23T10:20:42","date_gmt":"2022-10-23T08:20:42","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/johanno1.se\/2022-10-23\/"},"modified":"2022-10-23T10:20:42","modified_gmt":"2022-10-23T08:20:42","slug":"2022-10-23","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/johanno1.se\/sv\/2022-10-23\/","title":{"rendered":"2022-10-23"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"import-comment import-comment-level-0\">\n<h2>12:20<\/h2>\n<p>11:45, ja j\u00e4drar vilken adrenalinh\u00f6jare.<\/p>\n<p>\u00c4r det retirerande ryskt artilleri i Kherson vi ser?<br \/>\nDet \u00e4r ryska mjuka fordon med artilleri som k\u00f6r f\u00f6rbi en rysk stridsvagn, artilleri ligger ju 20km bakom och det \u00e4r en ukrainsk stridsvagn, inte n\u00e5n spaningspluton.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"import-comment import-comment-level-0\">\n<h2>12:38<\/h2>\n<p>Det finns lite rykten om att omr\u00e5det \u00f6ster om Inhulets i detta nu \u00f6verges och det r\u00e4cker egentligen med att titta vad Ukrainska staben sa ig\u00e5r som LW postade, OM det \u00e4r r\u00e4tt ort man hittat, f\u00f6r d\u00e5 har ryssarna retirerat strax norr om Khakovka.<\/p>\n<p>Det skall v\u00e4l inte f\u00f6rv\u00e4xlas med att vi tidigare h\u00f6rt ryssarna s\u00e4ga evakuering av civila etc. det \u00e4r allts\u00e5 n\u00e5n typ av antingen konsolidering ner mot sista f\u00f6rsvarslinjen vid Khakovka alternativt att man \u00f6verger hela omr\u00e5det \u00f6ster om Inhulets, och det \u00e4r p\u00e5g\u00e5ende?<br \/>\nJag har inte f\u00f6rst\u00e5tt om det f\u00f6regicks av en framst\u00f6t s\u00f6derut fr\u00e5n Davyidiv Brid eller om man \u00e5terigen \u00f6vergett f\u00f6rsvar p\u00e5 eget bev\u00e5g?<\/p>\n<p>Det vi alla trycker F5 p\u00e5 ett par g\u00e5nger om dagen p\u00e5 gammelsvenskbys hemsida f\u00f6r \u00e4r inl\u00e4gget n\u00e4r ukrainsk spaning n\u00e5tt byn som f\u00f6reg\u00e5s av inl\u00e4gget att ryssarna l\u00e4mnat byn.<\/p>\n<p>Det kan ju h\u00e4nda att ryssarna i samma veva \u00f6verger staden Kherson ocks\u00e5, det plundras v\u00e4l och man f\u00f6rflyttar alla tv\u00e4ttmaskiner \u00f6ver Dnepr. Men det kan ocks\u00e5 betyda att man konsoliderar Khersonfronten och \u00f6verger \u00f6ster om Inhulets f\u00f6rst f\u00f6r att f\u00f6rsvara staden Kherson.<br \/>\n-det skulle finnas viss logik i det om man kartrekar.<\/p>\n<p>Man kan ju rent teoretiskt ha en bekv\u00e4m vinter i staden Kherson med alla civila som m\u00e4nskliga sk\u00f6ldar?<br \/>\nF\u00f6rr\u00e5d \u00e4r det v\u00e4l ingen brist p\u00e5 t\u00e4nker jag d\u00e5 Ukraina v\u00e4l inte vill j\u00e4mna staden med marken.<\/p>\n<p>Det vore v\u00e4l bra om Ukraina kan h\u00e5lla trycket uppe s\u00e5 retr\u00e4tten blir rysk \u2013 oorganiserad och kaosartad.<\/p>\n<p>Sen \u00e4r det v\u00e4l ocks\u00e5 signifikant att USA dels flygit in 101st men ocks\u00e5 har mycket \u00f6vningar upp mot vitryssland f\u00f6r att f\u00f6rm\u00e5 dom att inte p\u00e5b\u00f6rja offensiva operationer ned i Ukraina. Om det vore en garanterad maskirovka skulle v\u00e4l inte markeringen beh\u00f6vas?<br \/>\nDenna markering har ju inte beh\u00f6vts hittills?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"import-comment import-comment-level-0\">\n<h2>12:43<\/h2>\n<p>Ocks\u00e5 twitterrykten men Ukraina skall ha slagit tillbaka vid Bakhmut och Soledar och kastat ut ryssarna ur all bebyggelse, sant eller inte ingen aning och som sagt twitterrykten.<\/p>\n<p>Mer twitterrykten att ryssarna har genomf\u00f6rt motanfall \u00f6ster om floden Oskil i syfte att f\u00f6rs\u00f6ka etablera ett N-S f\u00f6rsvar l\u00e4ngs med floden Zherebets. Logiskt att f\u00f6rs\u00f6ka etablera vid en naturlig f\u00f6rsvarslinje och logiskt att f\u00f6rs\u00f6ka h\u00e5lla N-S v\u00e4g genom Svatove \u00f6ppen?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"import-comment import-comment-level-1\">\n<h3>12:56<\/h3>\n<p>Jag h\u00e5ller med Henrik, Ukraina klarar detta galant bara dom f\u00e5r materiel.<br \/>\nDet \u00e4r inte brist p\u00e5 soldater eller kompetent personal.<\/p>\n<p>De som nu i tr\u00e5den vill ha n\u00e5gon typ av eskalering med v\u00e4stliga f\u00f6rband i Ukraina fiskar kanske inte i grumliga vatten men b\u00f6r v\u00e4l fundera lite p\u00e5 vad det \u00e4r dom \u00f6nskar, allt kan ju h\u00e4nda efter det?<\/p>\n<p>Det \u00e4r v\u00e4l samma som sagt att bara stridsvagnar blir en eskalering men att det vore skitbra om samma stridsvagnar kom till Ukraina med amerikansk bes\u00e4ttning. Jag har sv\u00e5rt att se logiken h\u00e4r?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"import-comment import-comment-level-0\">\n<h2>13:19<\/h2>\n<p>R\u00e4tt tr\u00e5kig diskussion ig\u00e5r och idag om att de som vill skicka CV90 och Archer till Ukraina \u00e4r om inte sm\u00e5 sm\u00e5 barn som inte f\u00f6rst\u00e5r n\u00e5gonting s\u00e5 iallafall id1oter.<\/p>\n<p>Det hj\u00e4lper alltid att s\u00e4tta saker i perspektiv, f\u00f6r inte s\u00e5 l\u00e4nge sedan hade vi stora f\u00f6rbandsd\u00f6den och det gick alldeles utm\u00e4rkt med ett starkare ryssland \u00e4n idag (d\u00e5 dom k\u00f6rt en afghan vilket vi nu vet\u2026).<\/p>\n<p>Vi har hundratals fordon av olika typer f\u00f6rr\u00e5dsst\u00e4llda idag som ingen k\u00f6r vid en mobilsering (idag). Vissa \u00e4r \u00e4ldre modeller och det finns v\u00e4l \u00e4ven idag ett visst behov av f\u00f6rnyelse? Vi har g\u00e5tt igenom det h\u00e4r hur m\u00e5nga g\u00e5nger som helst.<\/p>\n<p>Nu \u00e4r det ju naturligtvis s\u00e5 att genom att tillfoga Ryssland skada i Ukraina g\u00f6r vi Sverige s\u00e4krare och om vi kunde f\u00e5tt Ryssland att v\u00e4nda sig in\u00e5t nu innan vintern hade vi sluppit angrepp p\u00e5 v\u00e5r energif\u00f6rs\u00f6rjning, s\u00e5 l\u00e5ngt \u00e4r v\u00e4l alla \u00f6verrens?<\/p>\n<p>Det har varit r\u00e4tt genomg\u00e5ende h\u00e4r, f\u00f6rst skulle vi k\u00e4nna att Ukraina skulle f\u00f6rlora och trodde man motsatsen var man ju en id1ot, sen hade Ukraina inte offensiv f\u00f6rm\u00e5ga alls och man var en id1ot om man trodde att dom skulle klara att g\u00e5 p\u00e5 offensiv, b\u00e4ttre att avst\u00e5 land, och nu \u00e4r man en id1ot f\u00f6r att man vill att Ukraina skall f\u00e5 offensiva vapen s\u00e5 att dom kan \u00e5terta sitt land.<br \/>\n-fick jag det r\u00e4tt nu?<\/p>\n<p>Ukraina sj\u00e4lva har stridsvagnar h\u00f6gst p\u00e5 \u00f6nskelistan.<\/p>\n<p>Genomg\u00e5ende \u00e4r ju att epitetet id1ot delas ut till de som oreserverat vill st\u00f6dja Ukraina f\u00f6r att g\u00f6ra Sverige s\u00e4krare, en vacker glidning av r\u00e4tt och fel:)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"import-comment import-comment-level-1\">\n<h3>13:20<\/h3>\n<p>Det hade n\u00e4stan varit enklare om Ukraina bara gett upp?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"import-comment import-comment-level-1\">\n<h3>14:34<\/h3>\n<p>Det d\u00e4r har snurrat n\u00e5gra g\u00e5nger och jag tror det var s\u00e5 enkelt som att \u2013 Ukraina b\u00f6rjade bli ett fritt och demokratiskt land och det hotade f\u00f6rtryckarregimen i Moskva mer \u00e4n n\u00e5got annat. Sen var det nog en portion straff ocks\u00e5 som skulle utdelas f\u00f6r fr\u00e4ckheten att dom valde demokrati och frihet.<\/p>\n<p>NATO \u00e4r noll hot f\u00f6r Ryssland, det har dom redan erk\u00e4nt genom att dra bort hela sitt gr\u00e4nsf\u00f6rsvar.<br \/>\nDock s\u00e5 ser Ryssland NATO som ett problem.<\/p>\n<p>N\u00e5gon har skrivit ungef\u00e4r s\u00e5 h\u00e4r i n\u00e5t forum \u2013 det \u00e4r lite som om man bygger en polisstation i en brottsbelastad f\u00f6rort, inv\u00e5narna v\u00e4lkomnar polisstationen och de kriminella avskyr den, exakt s\u00e5 \u00e4r ju f\u00f6rh\u00e5llandet mellan NATO och Ryssland. NATO hindrar ryssarna att sk\u00e4nda och sk\u00f6vla sina grannar och d\u00e4rf\u00f6r gillar dom inte NATO, men NATO \u00e4r inte ett hot mot dom.<\/p>\n<p>Krim \u00e4r iofs. viktigt men det finns andra hamnar i Svarta havet OCH dom hade Krim genom ett avtal redan OCH dom hade sedan 2014 ockuperat Krim OCH det var n\u00e5gon typ av stillest\u00e5nd s\u00e5 ett \u00f6verfallskrig gick inte att motivera med det heller.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"import-comment import-comment-level-1\">\n<h3>15:05<\/h3>\n<p>V\u00e4lskrivet XSI33 \ud83d\udc4d<\/p>\n<p>Jag t\u00e4nker nu att det finns politisk h\u00e4nsyn till att inte skicka offensiva vapen. F\u00f6r mig \u00e4r det helt orealistiskt att i f\u00f6rsta andetaget s\u00e4ga att MBT skulle eskalera kriget och i den andra s\u00e4ga att USA intervantion \u00e4r att f\u00f6redra. Det eskalerar \u00e4nnu mer. <\/p>\n<p>Med det sagt s\u00e5 skall ju Sverige s\u00e5klart skicka ner allt vi kan avvara till den USA ledda insatsen, g\u00e4rna Gripen, Archer och en mekbataljon \ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"import-comment import-comment-level-1\">\n<h3>15:12<\/h3>\n<p>Ja m\u00e5sfr\u00e5gan \u00e4r alltid lite klurig och jag har v\u00e4l stannat i tiden sent 90-tal n\u00e5ng\u00e5ng.<\/p>\n<p>Vi har ju lagt siffran till 200st bara f\u00f6r att vi inte vet b\u00e4ttre men om man f\u00f6rs\u00f6ker se helt objektivt p\u00e5 att skicka CV90 till Ukraina. Ett kompani skulle v\u00e4lta det fria v\u00e4st, det skulle vara stort.<\/p>\n<p>R\u00e4tt s\u00e4ker p\u00e5 att vi kan avvavra 9-10 vagnar, att det skulle s\u00e4nka v\u00e5r f\u00f6rm\u00e5ga att freda oss mot ryskt sk\u00e4ndande tror nog ingen.<\/p>\n<p>Det skulle f\u00e5 andra att skicka fr\u00e5n \u00f6versta hyllan.<\/p>\n<p>Att man inte skickar dessa 10st beror ju p\u00e5 att man \u00e4r orolig f\u00f6r eskalering\/konsekvenser men jag \u00e4r av \u00e5sikten att Putin redan eskalerat till max och \u00e4r Finland, Polen, Baltikum och Slovakien beredda att ta konsekvenser, varf\u00f6r skall vi vara s\u00e4mre?<\/p>\n<p>Sen humanit\u00e4r insats \u2013 vi \u00e4r ju en humanit\u00e4r stormakt som har som m\u00e5l att bidra till fred och en b\u00e4ttre v\u00e4rld. Jag kan inte t\u00e4nka mig en b\u00e4ttre humanit\u00e4r insats \u00e4n att ge ukraina tillr\u00e4ckligt stor hammare f\u00f6r att sl\u00e5 ihj\u00e4l alla ryssar i Ukraina mer s\u00e5 dom inte kan forts\u00e4tta sk\u00e4nda fem\u00e5riga barn och tortyrm\u00f6rda dom.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"import-comment import-comment-level-1\">\n<h3>15:17<\/h3>\n<p>Det \u00e4r f\u00f6r det mesta god ton tycker jag men vissa dagar blir det aggressivt och lite inkvisition och ig\u00e5r och idag verkar alla sp\u00e4rrar ha sl\u00e4ppt.<\/p>\n<p>Just det h\u00e4r med att hj\u00e4lpa Ukraina med offensiva vapen \u00e4r k\u00e4nsligt, f\u00f6rmodligen politiskt, f\u00f6r det l\u00e4ggs r\u00e4tt mycket kraft p\u00e5 att f\u00e5 det f\u00f6rslaget att framst\u00e5 som d\u00e5ligt, ogenomt\u00e4nkt, oansvarigt och direkt dumt n\u00e4r det \u00e4r s\u00e5 otroligt uppenbart att det \u00e4r precis tv\u00e4rtom \ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n<p>Kan vi dr\u00e4nera den ryska armen p\u00e5 offensiv kapacitet utan att offra svenska liv \u00e4r ju ett tillf\u00e4lle som aldrig kommer tillbaka. N\u00e4sta g\u00e5ng \u00e4r det ju v\u00e5ra soldater som d\u00f6r i skyttegravarna.<\/p>\n<p>Sen \u00e4r ju alla dessa offensiva vapen tillverkade och ink\u00f6pta f\u00f6r ap-mycket skattemedel f\u00f6r att d\u00f6da ryska soldater med (jag, det \u00e4r ju fel men ni f\u00f6rs\u00e5r\u2026) och om man nu kan anv\u00e4nda dom till det dom \u00e4r tillverkade f\u00f6r innan dom blir obsoleta \u00e4r v\u00e4l snudd p\u00e5 vad man b\u00f6r g\u00f6ra?<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"import-comment import-comment-level-0\">\n<h2>21:29<\/h2>\n<p>Har v\u00e4l varit upp men Shoigu ringer runt och varnar f\u00f6r att ukrain ska false flagga en smutsig bomb.<\/p>\n<p>Hoppas USA h\u00e5ller sin r\u00f6da linje och g\u00f6r blodpudding av den ryska armen om dom genomf\u00f6r detta och inte bara gr\u00e4ver ned sig i en diskussion om definitioner av om det var ett k\u00e4rnvapen eller inte.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"import-comment import-comment-level-1\">\n<h3>21:31<\/h3>\n<p>Tv\u00e5a p\u00e5 denna alandisland l\u00e4ngee upp har postat<\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>12:20 11:45, ja j\u00e4drar vilken adrenalinh\u00f6jare. \u00c4r det retirerande ryskt artilleri i Kherson vi ser? Det \u00e4r ryska mjuka fordon [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","ast-disable-related-posts":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"default","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[18,33],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-6839","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-ukraina","category-arkiv01"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v28.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>2022-10-23 -<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/johanno1.se\/sv\/2022-10-23\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"sv_SE\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"2022-10-23 -\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"12:20 11:45, ja j\u00e4drar vilken adrenalinh\u00f6jare. \u00c4r det retirerande ryskt artilleri i Kherson vi ser? 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