WILL NOT SURRENDER INTO CAPTIVITY A SECOND TIME: Marine Anton Savyanenko on the breakthrough from Mariupol, hunger and torture in the RF

Speaker 1

I wouldn't surrender into captivity a second time. And before captivity, I would have said that, of course, it's better to choose life. If there is an option to save your life, then, of course, you should choose it. But after captivity, it tells me that it is better not to surrender into captivity. Because, well, it gives you absolutely nothing. Meaning you are suspended in a state. You suffer every day, you are underfed, you are cold, but you are not alive. Because your life could end today during a check. Or tomorrow with an investigator. Many guys who sat for four years, three and a half, and then simply died in captivity.

Speaker 2

Anton, first of all, I am glad to welcome you home, and I am glad to welcome you to this studio, to our program. You spent four years in captivity and returned just this June of this year. Tell me, during these couple of months that have passed, how much have you managed to familiarize yourself with the context of what has been happening in the country, in the army, perhaps in your family? What has changed for you very significantly, so drastically? And what hasn't changed at all?

Speaker 1

First and foremost, the people's attitude toward this war has changed. Because I have been in the Armed Forces since 2019. Previously, before 1922, people in Kyiv weren't very interested in what was happening there at all. And now, at home, all my friends and acquaintances are helping, interested in who is fighting and who is not. Most of the guys in my circle went to fight, my friends, acquaintances. And this is very motivating and gratifying.

Speaker 2

And what hasn't changed?

Speaker 1

It hasn't changed. From what I've understood over these two months, this war has turned into siphoning some money. That is, if at the beginning of the war, based on who I spoke with, Ukraine united, then 3-4 years of war have passed, and again it's all turning into the prolonging of the war into a business. And this, unfortunately, has not changed.

Speaker 2

And how much does the picture differ, the one that was described to you in captivity? Because many prisoners say that both Russian television, and what the guards say, and what you actually saw in Ukraine differ.

Speaker 1

It is 100% different, because in Russia they told us that Ukraine doesn't exist. Since 1922, there have been almost no Ukrainians left in Ukraine. Only foreigners are fighting there. Like, there is no electricity, there is no food. Only women are driving, the men have run out. So there is even gold there. Ukraine doesn't exist, only Western Ukraine remains there, and that's it. And even that Poland will take soon, only a little is left. Now I've arrived. The mood in Ukraine is maximally positive. Everything is there, everything is working. People are living, enjoying life. They aren't losing heart, everything is on point.

Speaker 2

What did you do these three months? July, August, September? Rehabilitation, some kind of treatment? Or just at home?

Speaker 1

Two months of rehabilitation. Truskavets. Then to Kyiv. Now at home, I am slowly adapting with my family, living slowly.

Speaker 2

Who was waiting for you at home?

Speaker 1

Mother and brother.

Speaker 2

Let's go back then. Generally, you said that since 2019 you have been in service, in the army. Did you join the Marines right away?

Speaker 1

Exactly.

Speaker 2

Are you a career soldier? That's right. And you served in the 36th right away?

Speaker 1

brigade? Yes. I went through basic training in Mykolaiv. And after that, I was sent to the 36th Marine Brigade. There, you could say, since the beginning of 2020, after basic training, there, since January 4, 2020, I have been in the Marines.

Speaker 2

And why? Why did you join the army? And especially the Marines?

Speaker 1

In childhood, I had some acquaintances with a family, and I saw a Marine's beret on one man. And I wanted it very much. And when the question of going to serve arose, when the draft notice arrived, I chose the Marines themselves. Therefore, since childhood, I considered them the elite of elites.

Speaker 2

A black beret too, I gather. Exactly so,

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 2

And drove past, and it was already Sea Waves. And what was your position?

Speaker 1

Scout driver.

Speaker 2

And you were a sailor, a former officer?

Speaker 1

Exactly, as a sailor.

Speaker 2

You served in Mariupol, I understand. Or in Mykolaiv? In

Speaker 1

I served in Mykolaiv, and I was on rotation in Mariupol.

Speaker 2

In '22?

Speaker 1

That's right, the 20th year. The 20th year. In the beginning of the 21st, we were there. Then, on the 6th or 7th of December, we arrived, at the end of the 21st year, we already arrived for this rotation.

Speaker 2

And where exactly were you standing?

Speaker 1

I was just standing near Shyrokyne.

Speaker 2

What happened on February 24th at your positions?

Speaker 1

Well, if we are to tell the truth here, then not from the 22nd, but let's start somewhere around the 14th. We had an order that some command would come to us. First, one man arrived, Lieutenant Colonel Oksionkin, to check if we had everything; they had never visited before. They arrived at the positions, and there they started telling us that our gas cylinders, which we bought with our own money, were installed incorrectly. And so on. Then the next day, Colonel Petrosenko arrived, if I'm not mistaken, from the command… Now… East, if I'm not mistaken, that's the direction for the Donetsk region. Most importantly, they took our ammunition, leaving four magazines for each soldier, took the grenades, hand grenade launchers, and sealed the mortars, so that we would in no case provoke Russia to attack us.

Speaker 2

Wow.

Speaker 1

Just before the start of the war.

Speaker 2

That's how they explained it, or is it

Speaker 1

Did you draw conclusions? Yes, yes, that's how they explained it to us, so there would be no provocation. Starting from the beginning of February, equipment was already moving in full force, and every night through night-vision devices, it was visible that endless columns were moving in our direction.

Speaker 2

Where was it that you saw them,

Speaker 1

If, for example? The settlement to the left of Shyrokyne, Sahanka. And we had a position there, Khyzhak, mine specifically, we were stationed there. And right there we observed all of this. Did you report? Of course, we reported every day about all the movements of the enemy, the equipment. They told us, observe, some kind of exercises are being conducted. Everything is normal, nothing will happen.

Speaker 2

And so it continued until 26

Speaker 1

…-th? It went on like that until February 19th. On February 19th, cluster Grads hit our positions, out of nowhere, at five in the morning. They cut our power supply. Our electricity came from Mariupol. Wires stretched across the fields. That is, charging lights, batteries, thermal imagers, night vision—it was all on electricity. Our power was cut. At that moment, I was at the KSP 12 km over there in the village of Lebedynske. That's how we lived there, we just drove to the positions, rotated 4 on 2, we had our own system. They tell us, "Guys, fix the wires, everything needs to be redone." We went on foot, because driving by car was no longer an option. We spent the nights at the position. Only it wasn't on the 20th, it was on the 24th. On the 24th, we were all already leaving the position. Other units, other brigades were there. We were heading to the positions at night, while everyone else was leaving. I even wondered where we were going. Everyone is leaving, and we are going there. It's okay, we went through, repaired it, did everything we needed to do. Then from the 25th to the 26th, around one in the morning, I was at the observation post, my brothers-in-arms were sleeping. And then the orcs came over the radio. They say, "If we come closer, maybe we'll drink some tea."

Speaker 2

Orcs. This is a word from the past. We don't say orcs anymore, but they will leave. Well, I

Speaker 1

I was just thinking. What was the name?

Speaker 2

I remembered, we really called them that—orcs or separatists. Not anymore now, now it's different.

Speaker 1

Yes, and I got scared because there were only two radios. One was with me, the second was in the dugout, where the guys were sleeping. And I thought that maybe someone might be there in the dugout. I ran there, and everyone was sleeping. I said, guys, get up, basically, because we've been breached, we need to think of something. We reported to the commander. The commander told us that a breakthrough is planned. So be ready for further actions.

Speaker 2

Commander of what?

Speaker 1

Platoon commander. Be ready for further actions. Then we saw an advance of vehicles. Two tanks came out, two BMPs, seemingly combat infantry. Well, I don't remember how much infantry. Well, maybe 50 people max there. We had a total of 6 on the position. And there were two more of our positions from the 501st battalion. There were another 15 people on those two positions. And the seniors of our positions gathered and said, in short, gather the youngsters and leave. And we are staying. 6 people remained there. They were from other positions; none of ours remained, because we had other tasks. And they stayed.

Speaker 2

Did these columns move from the direction of Sakhanka?

Speaker 1

Yes, they drove straight from the village to the positions. And that was it. We retreated during the night to Lyabidinske. Everything there had already been shelled. We arrived in Lyabidinske. Our people had already gathered there. And we left for the Il-Licha plant. This was from the night of the 26th. We entered the Il-Licha plant and went to sleep. They said that tomorrow we are moving out to Zaporizhzhia. According to the documents, we were supposed to take up a defensive line somewhere. I don't remember where we were supposed to retreat to, but we were supposed to go somewhere there. Khlibodarok, I think, somewhere not far from Mariupol. We went to sleep. At 4 in the morning, the equipment was parked there. We cleaned the weapons.

Speaker 2

They told you "summary" again,

Speaker 1

Right? Yes, that was already, if I'm not mistaken, just the "consolidated" officer delivering information to us, and it was being passed to him from above. Then we woke up in the morning. That is, with the thought that we still had to move somewhere further, that Mariupol would still be surrounded, because there was already information that columns were coming from Crimea. We understood that the next morning would bring something. And the commander says, "No, guys, we're not moving anywhere anymore, so let's get ready. Tomorrow at 7 AM, you take new positions in the city." My commander, Shved, gathered us and gave the information. We prepared and prepared. The next morning we woke up and went to take positions on the outskirts of the city of Mariupol. That is, we met the enemy from Sartana.

Speaker 3

with

Speaker 1

that direction. And that's it, literally a couple of days passed there, and we already clearly understood that we wouldn't get out of Mariupol because there were many strong people. And so we held the defense. We held the defense first near Sartana, and we were constantly, constantly, constantly being pushed back through fighting until March 22nd. And on March 22nd, the brigade entered the plant. Around those dates. From March 22nd to April 11th, we held the defense at the plant. Then, you've probably heard about the situation with the 501st battalion.

Speaker 2

So that they surrendered.

Speaker 1

Yes, it was, if I'm not mistaken, around the seventh.

Speaker 2

When you realized that you wouldn't get out of Mariupol, what did you do in terms of calls, perhaps home?

Speaker 1

I tried not to call at all. Throughout the whole war, I called home twice. Maybe three maximum. The first time I called, my mother was crying. Why you? Why you? I say, that's enough, stop it. They aren't shooting at us at all, it's all not true. They show lies on TV. We hear that they are shooting somewhere there, around the middle of March. But where we are, I say, it's quiet, we are just sitting.

Speaker 2

At the factory

Speaker 1

already. And they say that you aren't getting in touch? I say so, there is no internet. Well, although it actually wasn't like that. I just had to calm mom down. I called my brother, he says, yes, you don't even have to lie to me. Just somehow survived there. I say, that's it, somehow survived. Well, I didn't think. Just no one thought. Just understood that such is our fate as marines.

Speaker 2

When the brigade split, when one part decided to go in the Zaporizhzhia direction, to break through—this breakthrough was unsuccessful, a column was destroyed there, and many died then during the first breakthrough. Part of them decided to break through to Azovstal and join Azov. Did you know, in general, what was happening as a sailor? Were any orders relayed to you? Were you told about this situation?

Speaker 1

Yes, let's start with the first breakthrough. The first breakthrough was from April 10 to 11. At that time, I was stationed at positions at the Illich plant. That is, on combat duty, so to speak. We heard that somewhere there were some sounds, some equipment starting up. But we didn't even know that there would be some kind of breakthrough. They treated it quite irresponsibly there. There was simply panic among the people. Because they had been sitting in a bunker the whole war. Many of them. Just to note, out of a thousand people who were there at the Illich plant, a maximum took part in the defense of the Illich plant. That's the maximum. About 400 men. That's the absolute ceiling. All the others just sat there. I had a situation. Of course, I'm planning four topics, but it's just painful. I enter one of the units. People are sitting. They have tournaments in checkers, backgammon, chess, a two-time question. They don't even understand what is behind the bunker.

Speaker 2

Did you see this with your own eyes?

Speaker 1

I was standing there, at the smoking area. Thinking, happy people. Because Halima's bunker was above them with a maximum of a meter of earth. And they don't even realize that they go out ten people at a time to smoke, that something could surround them and simply bury this bunker. They are happy because they don't even realize the danger. They will simply die and that's it.

Speaker 2

Was this management?

Speaker 1

Management as well.

Speaker 2

Battalion, or are you something more? Brigade. And which battalion are you from?

Speaker 1

I am a separate reconnaissance company.

Speaker 2

And is this a separate reconnaissance [unit]?

Speaker 1

At 4 AM, when there was the first breakthrough, we were relieved. We arrived, and they say the breakthrough there was unsuccessful. The column lined up in one direction, the column was broken, they started breaking the combined arms brigade. At that moment, Volodymyr Anatoliyovych Baranyuk drove off in a completely different direction. He was taken prisoner. And some other such leaders of the marine brigade were also taken prisoner immediately. And the command was headed by my head of intelligence, Valentin Shostakov. Valentin Oleksandrovych. Then we went to sleep, then we went to the positions. And the next evening there was another official first or second breakthrough. We were told that the same command that remained established contact with Volodymyr Oleksandrovych. And he said that it is worth saving one's life, to make decisions based on one's own judgment. The commander gathered us, says look, here is the situation. To Azovstal, most likely, we won't break through, because there are many of us, we will be broken up. And home, most likely, we won't break through either, because there are many of them there, so we will be broken up. Well there, at least, we have a chance to look at the enemy, like, in the direction of home. And if our people from that side move toward us, there is at least some chance that someone will break out, someone will break through, some small group of people. And they will strengthen the positions there. But if we go to the sea to Azovstal, then none of this will happen at all. That is the decision our commanders made, that it would be better and more effective to break through toward Zaporizhzhia.

Speaker 2

And how did you personally feel?

Speaker 1

I felt that I already needed to go somewhere, at least, because there were already situations where I personally lost consciousness from hunger. And fatigue, hunger, cold. I didn't want anything anymore, I just wanted to somehow finish this faster. Like, let's finish it, that's it, in short, somehow. Because, well, it's such chaos that I can't even put it into words.

Speaker 2

And what about a third option, I know, to disperse, meaning to act independently, alone, change into civilian clothes and leave, however one can. Was there such an option?

Speaker 1

There was an option, but our unit did not consider such an option because we made a decision that either we all die, or we all fight our way through, but we will be together, we will not be separated.

Speaker 2

And tell us about this second breakthrough.

Speaker 1

Where

Speaker 2

were you? We

Speaker 1

We went out, looked at it from the side, how the looters were gathering there, how people were filling bags, bayonets, to take them to freedom, to sell them for a thousand hryvnias. Looked at this, realized that we are definitely not with these people, and we gathered as a separate group. This was a separate reconnaissance company, a separate company of snipers of the 36th Marine Brigade, and we gathered some wounded with us. We had two KrAZs, armored capsules. We gathered and started driving out of the Illich plant separately from everyone, meaning from the brigade, with our boys, so to speak. We started driving out, drove out, they began shelling our vehicles very heavily; the engine of the first vehicle was shot through, it drove into a tank ditch, then it drove out of it—I honestly don't know how it drove out, thanks to Vova Pashko—and we drove back into the plant. When we got out of the vehicles, we realized that we wouldn't be able to break through, because the density of fire was such that in a minute or two, our vehicles would simply be blown up. Everything was working: aviation, tanks, artillery, infantry, a lot. We unloaded from the vehicles, saw enemy infantry around the cars, snipers were already lying on the parapets, we immediately began heading into the plant, entered the plant, saw a huge white Metinvest flag, a bunch of barrels, fires burning, our guys standing, a speaker, music playing, absolutely no idea what was happening. This was specifically not Illich. Our company was at Azovmash, which is two plants in one. After this failed breakthrough, we went to them to ask what was happening here. They tell us that we are surrendering into captivity here, so come with us if you want to survive.

Speaker 2

Who were they?

Speaker 1

These were the remnants of the brigade; whoever had survived from all parts of the plant gathered there. And the bunker itself was a hospital. There were wounded people there, many wounded. There were perhaps exactly 300 people. And together with them were all those who survived after the breakthrough. So they gathered, and then, if I am not mistaken, the head of artillery, Lieutenant Colonel Shostak, then our financier, Ivanov, the high command of those who remained, majors and lieutenant colonels, they contacted the Russian side and agreed to surrender. And from that bunker at 10 in the morning, they began taking people in groups to Sartana, on Kamaz trucks, on buses, to the Cowshed. Just huge hangars, enormous, where there was only concrete, nothing else. They drove 1,000 of us there; we just stood there for two days and nights, lying on the concrete.

Speaker 2

So were you also taken prisoner together with them? Meaning you weren't fighting back anymore?

Speaker 1

We had no tank, no health, no food, nothing, no water.

Speaker 2

What did you actually think and feel when you saw this white flag, realized that the command had agreed to surrender, and that you too—now, or tomorrow, I don't know—would be taken captive? What did you know about this at all?

Speaker 1

It was disappointing because we looked at it and realized—while in my head I still thought the brigade was combat-ready, the brigade was holding up and everything was fine. But when I went down there, I saw hundreds of downcast eyes; even when the guys from the combat units pass by them, they don't even look at us, and they just want to save their own lives. Like, war is somewhere out there. I'm not a soldier at all. I ended up in the army by accident.

Speaker 2

This part of the brigade has already gone to Azovstal, correct?

Speaker 1

Yes, 160 people, if I'm not mistaken. Under the command of Valyna.

Speaker 2

Didn't you regret not going with them?

Speaker 1

I began to regret this already in captivity. When I spoke with the fighters of the Azov regiment, I became very friendly with them, and regretted it, because I would have liked to participate in missions with them there.

Speaker 2

I suspect that no one kept the guarantees that were promised to you.

Speaker 1

Of course. First of all, like, there were no guarantees at all. When we surrendered into captivity, they told us that in any case, like, it's good that you are alive, and we'll see further. For the first twenty-four hours, they didn't feed us at all; on the second day, they brought us bread, a wafer, and tea. Then they brought us to Yeleniivka, Olenivka. They beat us really harshly.

Speaker 2

Was that when there was an explosion? No, no.

Speaker 1

When there was the explosion, the explosion was in the summer. I was no longer there.

Speaker 2

Let's start from the beginning. After Ilyich, you were taken… to Sartan.

Speaker 1

For two days in Korivnykaty.

Speaker 2

Then where? To Taganrog, probably? No,

Speaker 1

then to Olenyivka.

Speaker 2

Oh, straight to Olenyivka?

Speaker 1

For five days. I stayed there for five days, that's it. I stayed for five days, some lists were being compiled there. The buses arrived, I thought everything was all set, we're going to Brovery. And, in short, these buses arrived, we loaded up, and went to a military airfield. We went to the airfield, we were loaded into the 76th Il, and we flew to Ryazhsk, Ryazan region. They brought us there, and a comical situation happened to me. Everyone was unloaded, but they forgot me in the paddy wagon, in that prison car, in solitary.

Speaker 3

Cut off.

Speaker 1

I started knocking, saying they forgot about me. A car drove somewhere across the territory for about 50 meters, stopped; the driver opens the door, an old man, he says something, closes the door again, runs around, then they came for me and took me separately. We also had a processing center there. I stayed there for 27 days. Out of all the cities, it was probably one of the lightest cities I've been to. There was the intake; almost all of us in the cell there had split heads, cut lips, everyone had something.

Speaker 2

Tell the viewers, what is the acceptance process? I know it is one of the toughest.

Speaker 1

Torture and reception. These are the two harshest moments of the arrival. You are simply unloaded from the car and a large number of people start beating one person with hands, feet, sticks, rubber batons, stun guns. They drag you through the procedures in parallel. Things like the bath, changing clothes, receiving a mattress, pillow, bedding. And while you are filling out questionnaires, your data, you are beaten at every stage. Three or four people hard. This is what reception is. Because there are many people, it is dragged out. Meaning, if you were alone, then there, there, five minutes, there, there, there. And there they got delayed somewhere, there. 129 people arrived with us. The reception started somewhere around 12 midnight. Something like that, speaking from my perspective. And I entered the cell right before wake-up, there, ten to six. I entered 10 minutes before wake-up.

Speaker 2

Is it true that soldiers and sailors are targeted less than commanders? That is, based on the hierarchy. These beatings and tortures, or not? Do sailors receive the same?

Speaker 1

In captivity, it works a bit differently. What I've noticed is that they bother those people less. It doesn't matter what your rank or position is. If you are compliant, if you are, like, pro-Russian, then they bother you less there. But if you hold some idea, or you show character somehow, then it doesn't matter who you are, they break you by any means.

Speaker 2

Did you know how to reconcile yourself in captivity? Well, you know, there's no need for heroism.

Speaker 1

I went through all this through my own experience, so to speak. And over time, I understood what is allowed and what is not. And what is allowed, but shouldn't be.

Speaker 2

And what?

Speaker 1

Well, first of all, you said everything correctly; there is no need to play the hero, to stand out from the crowd, so to speak, to show that you are some kind of hero, a serviceman. During the investigative actions, when the investigative actions took place, they gave me electric shocks, beat me, and drowned me. And I just had to; I realized that, well, for how long, five-ten minutes I could hold out now, I just had to be like those they beat, that's all. I already had to tell them, you know, as it is. What I did there, in my military history. Moreover, they came to me immediately and said that they knew who I was.

Speaker 2

Well, they tell everyone that.

Speaker 1

Well, yes. No, well, I found out later that they actually knew who I was, or whatever they knew. It doesn't matter, they already knew who I was. But when they asked me in the corridor, you know, what I wanted—the difference is, when investigators ask you in the office, then it's better to tell it as it is. Because they'll find out anyway; if you don't say it, they'll give your comrade a chocolate bar, or connect him to the elec… to the welding machine. Well, he'll tell anyway. I mean, they found these ways. Many sold out their comrades for cigarettes, for shawarma, or maybe for a chocolate bar. And it all comes out anyway, no matter what. But when they asked me in the corridor, I just said that I was a driver, like, three days in service, generally, I don't know anyone, I don't know anything. That's it. That's where, you know, the staff mainly beat you, in the corridor. And there it's better to just say that you're an ordinary, you know, driver, medic, or cook. That's how you hold your line, that you didn't kill anyone, you didn't shoot at the Russians. That's all. That's what I said throughout the whole captivity. They even told me—later they knew—"we know that you shot there." I say, no, well, I didn't shoot. That's it, I'm a driver. Until the very end. Although, even I already knew that nothing would happen, well, I just thought, why bother.

Speaker 2

You said that some there sold information, sold out their brothers-in-arms. Do you condemn them? Or do you understand them?

Speaker 1

No, to be honest, it's not so much that I condemn, it's just that I despise them more, probably, because I understand when a person committed a crime against the civilian population and you were questioned there, and you told, well, that's a fact, here I believe this could happen to anyone, because a person simply couldn't take it and told the truth. But there were cases when they actually offer you a cigarette, well, they aren't beating you, they aren't torturing you, you just tell everything, well, want a smoke? And you start telling them yourself. And then in the hallway, the operatives and investigators themselves say, we are simply in shock at you. Well, how can you do that, how? Nobody even touched you with a finger, why did you give him up? Or even worse, it's when they just make things up. Like, we served together, I have some sort of [something] towards you, I don't know what.

Speaker 2

Dislike.

Speaker 1

Hostility, that's it, you guys there just made a fuss over nothing. And there are such cases too, I know such cases where guys were framed, and those guys then went to serve 25 years, while they actually did nothing at all. I condemn such people, such people I, perhaps, even some, well, I already, basically, arrived and immediately reported to the appropriate authorities about those people whom I heard personally, who want to go fight for Russia, who love Putin, and everything is fine in their lives. They were exchanged together with me. And these people then put on "defender of Mariupol" T-shirts and walked around, and I just bluntly approached, saying, take it off, because I'll simply have you taken away. And I'm not shy, I said it in front of everyone there, well, generally, don't associate with him, he's just a traitor. There, from Roskavtsi. Well, they recorded it where necessary, I hope they'll sort it out.

Speaker 2

And as for, uh, the Russians, firstly, who was the cruelest in these tortures? And were you able in any way to remember information about them?

Speaker 1

Well, the information regarding these people, I have already passed on where it was needed, names, surnames. Yes, the new crop themselves, they are either young, guards, because those who are older, they are no longer interested. Young ones, like, 20-25 years old, they were interested in marking themselves. And, if we're talking about them, it's Buryats, Yakuts. As for me, they are just as terrible and just as cruel. And among the sane ones, which I didn't expect, I was terrified of ending up with Chechens, damn, I was taken prisoner, there were Chechens there, those who—I'm not talking about everyone—those I came across, well, on my path, were generally maximally sane, didn't touch me for no reason, well, meaning they were fair. At least there's a basic understanding, well, like, just as men,

Speaker 2

This was all in Olenivka, I understand. You said that you had eight stages.

Speaker 1

Eight.

Speaker 2

Now tell me, where exactly and what kind of prison was it?

Speaker 1

Quite tough.

Speaker 2

Just hard and just that kind of chill.

Speaker 1

Well, in order. From Olenivka, I went to Ryazhsk; there was a processing center, but then they weren't there at all. I sat there for 27 days; a check was simply taking place there; you go out into the corridor, you go back in, you sit in the cell all day, looking at the wall, they don't touch you. After 27 days, when I was being sent away from there, they beat me again, quite hard; this was the second time they beat me there. They said this phrase: "I don't know which gods you pray to, but you are lucky." I was the only one taken from this Ryazhsk to Crimea, to Sevastopol. By cars, like that. I changed 34 cars there; they drove me for about 2,000 km. I didn't know where I was going, and then when I finally realized that I was in Crimea, realized that I was in Crimea, I thought, well, that's it, home. And then, once I was in Crimea, I stayed there for 6 days; the conditions there were very good, it was a military unit, a foreign one, actually. Well, inside there was a plasma TV, there were chess and backgammon sets, the thing is, like for the military of the Russian army. In the morning I woke up, turned the TV up full blast, turned on some music, you do whatever you want. For smoking, they gave 7 cigarettes a day. I stayed there for 6 days, and then there, regarding my investigative matters, a fellow soldier, regarding my matters, in short, the investigation—it will be interesting, I'll tell you personally later. I was sent for investigative actions to Kamensk-Shakhtinsky, and K-12 to the SHIZO. There were 19 of us sent there. Then 12 of them were taken away.

Speaker 2

What is this called? A punishment cell?

Speaker 1

Punishment cell.

Speaker 2

For what?

Speaker 1

He passed himself off as another person.

Speaker 2

Why?

Speaker 1

Because I didn't want, well, how to put it, it's not that I was pretending, I just had my own cover story, and a lot of things didn't add up. I thought that now it would all be quick, not just 2-3, I thought.

Speaker 2

Decided to play James Bond. Yes,

Speaker 1

Yes. And I arrived in Crimea, they tell me generally, well, what are you talking about? People here have been working as investigators for 20 years already. And that's it, they send me there to the SHIZO. I spent 2 months, 4 days there. There were 19 of us there at first, then 12, and then there were only two. Me and another guy from the 53rd brigade. And the rest of the prison was convicts. Only two prisoners of war were there. They treated us very cruelly there as well. Every day during walks, everyone bent over. Very poor nutrition. Well, everything was bad in general. They beat us, I mean, it was a nightmare there. You stand all day. And then they sent us from there to Taganrog. Sent to Taganrog. In Taganrog, I also spent 1.5 months, and all of Taganrog, there were 350 prisoners of war, were transported again in a Yak-12, this stone Shakhtinsk. Only the convicts were taken out, and we were brought there to these barracks. And we lived there in barracks, like in a colony. I spent half a year there, exactly half a year. And then my curator, who was handling my case, came for me and said, "Again you're hiding something. Now you're going back to Taganrog again." I go from there back to Taganrog again. I spent a year and a half there. And from Taganrog, I went to Perm. Perm Krai, Sosnovsky District, Polovinki village.

Speaker 3

Sizo-3, is considered.

Speaker 1

This is exactly the kind of brutal place I encountered during captivity.

Speaker 2

Why?

Speaker 1

You stand all day. Let's even start with the wake-up. It's not like just, like, wake up and that's it, the world turns on. A command is given over the loudspeaker, a general command: wake up, make your beds, put your uniforms in order. Your job, your task is to make the bed quickly, get dressed, and stand. There are two lines in the cell, in each one. And we stand in two ranks, for example, facing each other. We just stand in our place all day. You can't walk around the cell, you can't drink water, you can't go to the toilet, you can't talk, you can't do anything at all. You just have to stand, head up; there are two cameras, video surveillance in the cell, which watch for every single violation. And you just stand there all day. It's allowed—at first it wasn't allowed, then it was allowed—to sit down for an hour for meals. In the morning, at lunch, and in the evening. And all the rest of the time you stand, you read books, standing, you read books, standing, you sing crap. And runs. There were four runs a day, you just stand in place and start running. Well and just, like, you run. You lift your legs high, imitating running. But in place. And that's the regime. They made us memorize as many poems as possible; the literature was completely useless, like, Russian.

Speaker 2

And what, for example? What are these poems, what are these

Speaker 1

The poems are just patriotic, like, Russian, and the information there is general prison [info], what is forbidden, what is not forbidden, there, in short. Surnames of heroes in Russia, surnames of children killed in Donetsk. Like, that we killed them there, there, them

Speaker 3

'I,

Speaker 1

Surname, patronymic, date year of birth, date year of death, cause, which crew was there, well, that's it. And there are various lists like that. Fundamentally didn't expect it at all.

Speaker 2

And they didn't give a Bible?

Speaker 1

Well, uh… Well, it was there, I don't know, someone was praying there, to whoever, so that she would be given it. Well, they gave it, well, that's just… I don't know. You weren't free, like, you couldn't just read a book. For example, I'm on duty today—they change the person on duty every day, they change them. They say, you're on duty today. And you have two hours of reading fiction per day. One in the morning, one, like, after lunch. And so you have two books for the cell. Or one later, in general. And then you, as the one on duty, just take a book during the allotted time and start reading. You read for an hour. Well, the voice, of course, for everyone. Then the next command. Well, everything is by command, otherwise you just stand there all day. Just a complete madhouse. I spent a year and a half there. The treatment was as bad as possible. They beat us constantly with stun guns. They beat us constantly with sticks. Many people died there. And was there any work? There was work there. The guys worked. They built something there. Restored prisons, cells. But I didn't work. Well, everything was okay for them. Those who worked.

Speaker 2

And did you just refuse? Yes. And why?

Speaker 1

Because that's how I am. Me and the guys were sitting there. We had our own idea there. I didn't consider it necessary. Or I didn't have some strong need. Yes, there was little food. But I didn't want to, and it passed. There I just observed all of it. How the guys there carry some bricks all day for a plate of porridge. For me, that was cringe.

Speaker 2

What allowed you to keep going? To endure all these tortures, abuses? How did you even hold together? How did you, I don't know, you said that you communicated there secretly in the Ukrainian language? How did you try, I don't know, maybe to think, to sing in Ukrainian? Or just to preserve your sanity? By the way, did you not forget the Ukrainian language over 4 years of not practicing it?

Speaker 1

A bit. My vocabulary is a bit limited, so to speak. But generally, I remember. I communicate, I try to communicate in Ukrainian. And what helped me? What helped me, first of all, was dreaming. I was constantly dreaming of something, coming up with business ideas, things like that, about what I would do after captivity. I came up with poems. And this took up a very large part of my time. In captivity, I would just stand there on the edge. The guys were talking quietly. I also talked, of course. I just mean, so that they wouldn't bother me. And I stood there, coming up with little poems.

Speaker 2

Do you still remember them?

Speaker 1

Well, of course.

Speaker 2

Did you write it down somewhere now, so as not to forget?

Speaker 1

Well, of course.

Speaker 2

Cool.

Speaker 1

Not quite a collection, but for myself.

Speaker 3

A small Russia for slaves and for masters. A tumor for the whole world. You have only one outcome. As Dostoevsky said, where are the French, and where are you. Ukraine is your pit. Ukrainians are not khokhols. Ukrainians are not khokhols. Your legacy will destroy you. You are a blind people. The same single outcome was played for you on the maps. Ukraine is not Russia. And will never be. Ukraine is not Russia. Blue, yellow – not a star. And dreams about what?

Speaker 1

How will I live? What would I like to achieve? Where would I like to visit? What would I like to buy for myself? Well, and so on. A whole list of such dreams. How best to achieve this or that goal? There are different paths, after all. Well, basically, there were many things I wanted. I am moving in those directions now. And everything went according to plan. Although in captivity, everyone told me that I was fooling around because I was planning all this, that I didn't know how it would be, that I was dreaming, what could I know, that when I got out, everything would change so much that everything would turn out completely differently. But everything turned out exactly according to the first plan.

Speaker 2

You met Vitya from Azov, the Azov regiment, Maksym Levchenko. Now he is already in the 3rd Assault. He seems to be an instructor, because I've already gotten confused about his positions.

Speaker 1

He quit.

Speaker 2

He has already quit. Super. He has his own

Speaker 1

Airsoft club now?

Speaker 2

Yes, you were in captivity together. That's how he introduced me to you and told me that when you were in captivity together, you came up with the idea of an airsoft club.

Speaker 4

The idea for the club arose while I was in captivity with my comrade-in-arms Anton. We dreamed of the future, fantasized, and thought about some big projects that would unite people. One of the elements of our logo is "X". And it symbolizes that one part of the "X" is my dreams, thoughts, and desires. The other is the dreams and desires of my comrade-in-arms Anton.

Speaker 2

Tell me, how is it? Have you joined it now? Because I know that he implemented this idea.

Speaker 1

Yes, yes. How did we actually meet? When they brought us all from Taganrog to Kamensk-Shakhtinsky, in Taganrog I sat opposite him. More precisely, he sat opposite me, in the cell. I heard his surname, first name. Special forces came to him so that he could show them tricks, show them techniques, because they knew he had done something; they took him out so he could show them fighting, various tricks. I knew he was from Kyiv, because they asked where from, and he said from Kyiv. I thought to myself, well, like, our guy. Then I got to Kamensk-Shakhtinsky, and we also started getting to know each other, who was from where, who was from where. And so from literally the first days we started communicating closely, supported each other, many common interests. He didn't tell the others that he was SIZO, he said he was a terrorist. I knew from the start, and he told me this, but this, so to speak, secret, remained a secret for Russia. And we came up with various business ideas, what we would do upon release, both separately and together. Our first business idea was not airsoft, but a farm. We wanted our own farm, like, 100 cows, in short. Seriously? Why? Because, as I understand now, I really wanted to eat, and it was just for fun to enjoy ourselves, to think about something like that, to dream. And then the next idea we had was an airsoft club. Once we were sitting, talking about it, it would be cool to go. I say, it would be cool to organize, because where I live, I have cool locations there. And it would be possible, well, we just talked ourselves up, how, what-what, and then we parted ways. And so I got out on Saturday, 06/26, got in touch with my mother. Mother says, Maksim came by, congratulated me, constantly supported me. And

Speaker 2

By the way, did you have some agreements that whoever is released first will visit their relatives? Exactly

Speaker 1

Yes.

Speaker 1

355. This is, until today, the full number of his brother, which we were supposed to call.

Speaker 2

And what did you ask him to tell or convey to his mother?

Speaker 1

I just said that I'm alive, that everything is fine with me and that I love her very much. Nothing like that, I asked not to tell, to say that everything is fine, they aren't beating me, they're doing well, everything there, in general, is great.

Speaker 2

Mom will see this interview.

Speaker 1

I know. We spoke, I got in touch, found out that he opened "Strike-X" in Lviv, now he has an airsoft club, I've already been there twice, I visited him. I'm very happy for him that everything in his life turned out this way, he is an extremely decent person and it's a pleasure to communicate with him. I knew that it was mutual. He will be in Kyiv soon.

Speaker 2

And you mentioned that you have already started implementing certain business ideas of your own. What are they, if it's not a secret?

Speaker 1

Greens, fruits, exotics.

Speaker 2

Wholesale

Speaker 1

trade.

Speaker 2

Your business is related to food.

Speaker 1

This is a family business. My mom has been doing this for 25 years and mom is simply 60 years old on September 20. And supposedly. I will already be working in her place. So, if you need exotics, fruits, greens, Troieshchyna, Forsazh, Larysa Ivanovna.

Speaker 2

Exotics, do you mean exotic fruits? Yes. Wow. Okay. Now let's talk about the return. I want to return there. To an unpleasant place for you. Last year, a not very pleasant thing happened in the media. People's Deputy Maryana Bezuhla, after a video of an execution was published by Russians showing how they shot 6 of our service members after they surrendered into captivity. Were they already armed and they shot them? Or did they simply voluntarily go into captivity? In short, it was about how service members surrender incorrectly. And that they should not surrender. Do you know where this line is? To hold on until the end and show heroism, to show the honor of the marines, among other things. And to try to save one's life. And who has the right at all to tell how, when, and in what form to surrender?

Speaker 1

A second time, I wouldn't surrender into captivity. That's what I'll tell you. And many, at least three of my acquaintances, who attempted a breakthrough, and they weren't taken prisoner. There were four of them. One of them, the youngest, was left alive; three were shot. Although they were without weapons, without anything. They were leaving from Mariupol. One was left alive, I remember, the kid was 18 years old. Meaning, there is no "right" way here. They were completely without weapons. They were simply stopped; those three were shot just because they were there. So 18, 16, scouts. One was left alive as a driver; they said, "you're lucky." So how to surrender correctly into captivity? There is no such thing here. And generally, just generally, I wouldn't surrender into captivity a second time. And before captivity, I would say, of course, it's better to choose life. If there is an option to save your life, then, of course, you must choose it. But after captivity, I tell myself, it's better not to surrender into captivity. Because, well, it gives you absolutely nothing. Meaning you are suspended in a state. You suffer every day, you don't have enough to eat, you're cold. But you aren't alive. Because your life could end today during a check. Or tomorrow with an investigator. Many guys who sat for 4 years, three and a half, and then simply died in captivity. Meaning those 4 years, they just sat there, in vain, one could say.

Speaker 2

There was also a similar partial discussion about those who broke through to Zoostal. And they were, as it were, forced or asked to surrender by the higher leadership of Ukraine. And those who surrendered at Illich. Meaning, those are greater heroes than those, because those surrendered on their own, while those held out there until the end. Have you heard such discussions in captivity? And what do you think?

Speaker 1

This situation is very superficial. Here, if you look into it, the brigade, the 36th Marine Brigade, was not ready to enter the combat zone. We were understaffed. Many positions, posts were held by women commanders. And when our people actually went through, they saw in fact that they had simply hired people through acquaintances. The brigade was not ready; we had only 60%.

Speaker 1

Therefore, such a question is difficult. And now Baranyuk has been made the guilty one, it seems. Yes, just so you understand, Baranyuk only became commander two months before the war. That is, everything he took over, and the brigade at that level of combat readiness he inherited, was handed over to him by Andriy Viktorovych Zhnatov. The brigade was not prepared. Not prepared. Little attention was paid to the preparation of the brigade, so it was understaffed, there weren't enough people. The basic situation was something different. There were many motivated guys there who really wanted to fight, so I don't even know how to compare, but of course, for me, the guys from Azovstal are heroes. For me personally. And this action, which came from the higher command, is more of a command failure, that it was brought to the point that if the command staff had been prepared, so to speak, they would have somehow sat down and worked out that the Illich plant and Azovstal needed to be joined or move together somehow. Perhaps in one team, in one storm, although it turned out to be on different boats, but there was simply panic, and none of this was done. I reckon. Honestly, I feel ashamed that I didn't go to Azovstal. I went through captivity myself before this, and as for how I speak. Yes, we saved lives, everything is cool. We held out for 47 days at the Illich plant, losses, everything. A lot of the enemy was destroyed on the right bank by the marines. A lot of equipment was burned. There were days when specifically more than 12, in my direction, 12 tanks were burned per day. For me, that's a lot. But still, I should have gone to the boys at Azovstal, to Azov.

Speaker 2

Even knowing that they could have died there. You have probably already had a chance to speak with your mother, to speak with your relatives. How did the state take care of them during the time when you were in captivity? How did they communicate with them? How did they tell them where you were, what happened to you? In your opinion, was enough done for your family?

Speaker 1

Unfortunately, Russia provided no information about us. And that is why our government could not even tell our parents anything. The only thing they said was that they were doing everything possible, wait. Everything will be fine. Your child is in captivity, everything is fine. There was some kind of financial assistance, I know, I didn't ask what it was or how much. But I know that there was. And words of support.

Speaker 2

Did anyone even come, I don't know, some political officers? No,

Speaker 1

Nobody except friends and acquaintances.

Speaker 2

From the military unit? No. Tell me about the first days in general after being released. I know that they took you there, probably to a rehab center. But when you were already home-home. How have Brovary changed?

Speaker 1

Stop, thank God. Thank God, stop. I cannot even describe it somehow. But this is a new life, that's what I call it. In my circle, this is a new life. It started for me from 26 to 6. A new vision of everything happening. And our country, no matter how it is, war, economic crisis, you read it on the internet. What I see, what I see, is that our country has taken a big step forward. Everything is being built, developing. In our country, the war did not strongly affect development and this. I like this. Seeing what is in Russia, that is, you drive through Perm, and there are potholes there like in villages. Everything is much worse for them. Even though there is a war, such a large country, everyone there says, 140 million, what will we do. It seems to me that not much is left. For some reason, I am sure that active hostilities will end by the end of next year.